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kiterunner827
07-07-2011, 02:47 PM
I'm self-studying Alg II this summer, and I'm using Scott Foresman's Advanced Algebra.
In his sections, he has BASIC programming sequences like:

10 LET T=25
20 FOR N=1 TO 10
30 PRINT T;
40 LET T=T-4
50 NEXT N
60 END

Is it really necessary for me to understand this for the concepts of Algebra II?

tkhunny
07-07-2011, 06:31 PM
Why do you ask?

Basic program structure might help you in life. A table of values might help you understand what a function is.

It's possible the the Foresman company has been around a while and their authors may have a clue. Some put more emphasis on programming. Some less.

mmm4444bot
07-07-2011, 06:33 PM
Knowledge of algebra is crucial when programming computers, but computer-programming knowledge is not required to learn algebra.

Are you familiar with the many free self-study math sites, like Purplemath (http://www.purplemath.com/) and Khan Academy (http://www.khanacademy.org/)?

Denis
07-07-2011, 09:09 PM
10 LET T=25
20 FOR N=1 TO 10
30 PRINT T;
40 LET T=T-4
50 NEXT N
60 END

Can you tell what that program will print out?

mmm4444bot
07-08-2011, 10:07 AM
Can you tell what that program will print out?



I can not, until somebody tells me exactly what the ; operator does in this particular version of BASIC.

galactus
07-08-2011, 10:55 AM
It would appear this generates a number sequence starting at 25 and decreasing by 4 each time through the loop.

When the counter gets to 10, it halts the program.

25,21,17,13,...........


This could come in handy if you want to learn to program calculators. Casios and TI's use a Basic-type language.

Denis
07-08-2011, 11:22 AM
I can not, until somebody tells me exactly what the ; operator does in this particular version of BASIC.

The ; simply instructs to print side by side (as a row): without it, printing is as a column.

mmm4444bot
07-08-2011, 11:55 AM
The ; simply instructs to print side by side

In this case the output will be:

25211713951-3-7-11



Again, understanding this BASIC program is not required for learning algebra.

MY EDIT: changed "output" to "program"

tkhunny
07-08-2011, 03:05 PM
Indeed, let us recall that BASIC was not in existence throughout almost all the development of what we call Elementary Algebra these days.

JeffM
07-08-2011, 10:15 PM
Indeed I do not think BASIC was in existence when I learned to program FORTRAN back in the mid-sixties. I seem to recollect that we somehow managed algebra without it.

mmm4444bot
07-09-2011, 02:38 AM
I'm thinking that this Foresman book is from the early 1990s (maybe the original poster can confirm this). That's about when the first Texas Instruments graphing calculator (TI-81) became popular in math classes. Maybe this book is one of the earlier texts to cover math and technology side-by-side. The book itself may contain an explanation for why it covers BASIC programming, but, as galactus pointed out, the up-and-coming handheld machines used BASIC-style syntax for commands and programming; perhaps the author was cutting-edge and believed that exposure to this programming stuff for math students should happen in textbooks sooner than later. Just a guess.

Denis
07-09-2011, 12:45 PM
In this case the output will be:

25211713951-3-7-11

Not quite: a blank space plus a space for sign (+ not shown) are inserted; -8 to 8 appears like this:


-8 -7 -6 -5 -4 -3 -2 -1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Denis
07-09-2011, 12:56 PM
10 LET T=25
20 FOR N=1 TO 10
30 PRINT T;
40 LET T=T-4
50 NEXT N
60 END

If this is inserted:
35 IF N=5 THEN PRINT
then this would be the output:


25 21 17 13 9
5 1 -3 -7 -11

Command means: after printing 5th T, do a blank print to disable the ; for 1 loop.

The "LET" exists, but is not required:
10 T=25
40: T=T-4

Denis
07-09-2011, 01:01 PM
Indeed I do not think BASIC was in existence when I learned to program FORTRAN back in the mid-sixties. I seem to recollect that we somehow managed algebra without it.
Was invented in 1963, Jeff. BASIC stands for:
Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code

I personally love the language...often wonder why EVERYBODY doesn't use it :roll:

Btw, also learned Fortran in 60's, plus Pascal and Cobol: completely forgot 'em all!!

mmm4444bot
07-09-2011, 01:25 PM
Not quite: a blank space plus a space for sign (+ not shown) are inserted

This is why I asked exactly what the ; operator does. Even though your posted answer to that question is not accurate, you can stay out of the corner. :wink:

mmm4444bot
07-09-2011, 01:36 PM
I personally love the language...often wonder why EVERYBODY doesn't use it

Many hardware devices that come with a built-in "macro language" for elementary programming purposes employ psuedo-BASIC syntax and commands, so more people may be using it than you realize.

"BASIC" is a very good acronym for this programming structure; I like it, too, because it's simple to learn and to remember the basic commands. Familiarity with this language reduces the learning curve when trying to program those aforementioned hardware devices.

My first exposure to a BASIC macro language was in the late 1970s, when I began programming dedicated systems for phototypography. I picked up the programming language so easily that my boss thought I was a genius. My monthly salary went up by $100/month for four consecutive months! :D And THAT fact lead my sister to actually declare that perhaps I was not the black sheep after all.

Denis
07-09-2011, 03:11 PM
Not quite: a blank space plus a space for sign (+ not shown) are inserted

This is why I asked exactly what the ; operator does. Even though your posted answer to that question is not accurate, you can stay out of the corner. :wink:




Your exact question:
> I can not, until somebody tells me exactly what the ; operator does in this particular version of BASIC.

You used word "particular"; I had no choice but to give a "general" answer:
you did not expand on "particular" ... so 15 minutes in corner for unclear question...

mmm4444bot
07-09-2011, 03:32 PM
I had no choice but to give a "general" answer

Are you now trying to claim that, in "general", the ; operator in BASIC "simply instructs to print side-by-side" (i.e, no mention of inserted spaces)?

If so, I will spend an hour in the corner.

If not, then you need to either explain yourself OR go straight to the corner in my place. 8-)