Which math class to take

markraz

Full Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
Messages
338
Not sure if this is a legal question on this site but I'll give it a shot.
which math class is easier, Calc III, proofs or Abstract algebra?
I am terrible at math but if I take one of these I can get a minor
in math. Any thoughts?
 
Not sure if this is a legal question on this site but I'll give it a shot.
which math class is easier, Calc III, proofs or Abstract algebra?
I am terrible at math but if I take one of these I can get a minor
in math. Any thoughts?

If you are "terrible at math," then you shouldn't be trying to get a minor in math.
About which class is "easier" would be/should be irrelevant to you because you
don't know how to use the necessary tools needed to do the prerequisite work
needed for one of those three courses.

You could speak with and/or send an e-mail to an instructor who teaches each
of the courses and ask him/her which courses and what letter grades in those courses
do they think would a student have to have to be able to succeed in their course.
 
Last edited:
Not sure if this is a legal question on this site but I'll give it a shot.
which math class is easier, Calc III, proofs or Abstract algebra?
I am terrible at math but if I take one of these I can get a minor
in math. Any thoughts?

If you have taken Calc I and Calc II - and passed both - then Calc III would be less of a torture.
 
If you are "terrible at math," then you shouldn't be trying to get a minor in math.
why is that?

you don't know how to use the necessary tools needed to do the prerequisite work
what are the prerequisites? according to my school I will have the prerequisites by the fall semester
for what I am registering for now

You could speak with and/or send an e-mail to an instructor who teaches each
of the courses and ask him/her which courses and what letter grades in those courses
do they think would a student have to have to be able to succeed in their course.
thanks
 
I'm not totally qualified to answer this question, but I have to say I think this depends on the individual.

I passed Calc 2 by the skin of my teeth last semester.

This semester, I'm taking Linear Algebra and Set Theory/Number Logic. I have the highest grade in ST/NL (The professor has handed out exams by highest grade... like nobody would notice), and one of the highest in Linear Algebra. Many of the people in these classes were in my Calculus 2 class last semester, and I'm absolutely certain they did better than I did, since I made a fantastic D+ in Calc 2.

Actually, let me retract my statement: I'm absolutely qualified to answer this question.

Know your strengths and weaknesses. Algebra is algebra, calc is calc, and proofs are proofs. If it were me, I'd take a class on proofs before I took another calculus or algebra class because I feel like I do really well with proofs, but not so well with Calculus, and I find proofs more interesting than algebra.
 
lookagain said:
If you are "terrible at math," then you shouldn't be trying to get a minor in math.

markraz said:
why is that?

If you use that phrase, then to me it means you're sufficiently poor at math that you can't pass a higher (college level)
math course without needlessly sacrificing studies from other courses, and being a burden on the instructor, any
in-person tutors, and/or online math message board helpers.

Otherwise, do not use the phrase "terrible at math" to describe yourself.
 
Last edited:
If you use that phrase, then to me it means you're sufficiently poor at math that you can't pass a higher (college level)
math course without needlessly sacrificing studies from other courses
Just because I'm not currently good at something, doesn't mean I shouldn't give it a shot or try to pass the course.

, and being a burden on the instructor
sure :confused: just cuz I'm paying $800 per credit hour, I certainly would not want to be a "burden" on the instructor. I mean after-all he is doing me a favor
by sharing his infinite wisdom... Are you serious?? Instructors get PAID to TEACH regardless of a student's aptitude or ambition.
College is a business. If I am a paying customer, I expect to get nothing less than what I pay for, which is service with a smile and service without a pompous attitude.

Otherwise, do not use the phrase "terrible at math" to describe yourself.
thanks for the tip, but for the record you can at one time in your life be terrible at something but through perseverance and hard work
one can most certainly get past it. If you don't try you won't excel. I hope you are not a motivational speaker....no offense
 
Last edited:
Just because I'm not currently good at something, doesn't mean I shouldn't give it a shot or try to pass the course.


sure :confused: just cuz I'm paying $800 per credit hour, I certainly would not want to be a "burden" on the instructor. I mean after-all he is doing me a favor
by sharing his infinite wisdom... Are you serious??

Instructors get PAID to TEACH regardless of a student's aptitude or ambition.

Certainly not - that is why there is a thing called pre-requisite.

College is a business. If I am a paying customer, I expect to get nothing less than what I pay for, which is service with a smile and service without a pompous attitude.

Be careful what you ask for! If you have mushroom-allergy yet you want steak-with-mushroom sauce and insist on it, you will get what you are asking for.

thanks for the tip, but for the record you can at one time in your life be terrible at something but through perseverance and hard work
one can most certainly get past it. If you don't try you won't excel. I hope you are not a motivational speaker....no offense

Of course this is why we have so many drunken driver accidents on the road.

People don't know their limits - and they want to do volume integration or drive at 80 mph on a hilly road after a night out on town.

It is the bartender's fault - the road was too curvy or the book was lousy or the instructor was inept. It is never the fault of the idiot who walked in with eyes closed.

When you take a course without proper background - you may get a paper from one of those for-profit-universities - that will be worthless. In the real world you will be asked to prove your mettle. If you can't - which you won't since you don't have the aptitude for it - your ambition or your trying hard won't count.

You will be replaced!!
 
Of course this is why we have so many drunken driver accidents on the road.

:rolleyes: I think a better analogy would be why so many people get lost on the road looking for their destination.
Good thing for GPS. So people without a natural sense of direction should not drive? maybe they shouldn't?

People don't know their limits -
So are you implying one should not push themselves?, one should just give up if they have trouble with a subject? hmmmm
Or should they keep trying to learn the subject better until they become more comfortable?? and perhaps one day excel at it?

"I have not failed 1000 times!!!! I have simply discovered 1000 ways that will not work"

yeah, I like that POV better..........

And they want to do volume integration
Good thing for solid modeling software, So I bet you memorized all the trig ratios? and you don't use a calculator when you need to find one?
after-all if you didn't memorize them all, you are limiting yourself. Using a chart or a calculator is most certainly cheating since one who need technology to solve problem obviously does not have the aptitude. And you do Riemann sums in your head
since even using a pad and pencil is cheating? using a calculator certainly is.

It is the bartender's fault - the road was too curvy or the book was lousy or the instructor was inept. It is never the fault of the idiot who walked in with eyes closed.

When you take a course without proper background - you may get a paper from one of those for-profit-universities - that will be worthless. In the real world you will be asked to prove your mettle. If you can't - which you won't since you don't have the aptitude for it - your ambition or your trying hard won't count.

You will be replaced!!
You totally missed my point, It's as if you are implying one should get a 4.0 or nothing..... good luck with that. Maybe schools should have pass/fail. Pass = 4.0 anything less than a 100%....epic fail 0.0 quality points. Good idea?
It's as if you are implying someone who uses a computer should be an expert on all aspects of it or they shouldn't use it. I suppose before logging on to our Dell with windows 7 we should be able to design and fabricate CPUS too?...... as well as design operating systems from scratch using nothing but microcode? After all if you are not able to dope silicon wafers and expose bare reticles via photo-lithography to make a mask prior to etching, you most certainly do not have the aptitude to use firefox to post on a message board.

Lastly, a college degree aside from the "knowledge" that goes with it, also displays a students perseverance and ability to finish a task all awhile multitasking and being psychologically abused by professors. A nice attribute to have in the REAL world workplace. Unfortunately no college degree guarantees an employer that a perspective employee/(former student) possesses the most important attributes; which are creativity and imagination ... Too bad they don't "teach" that at Universities. College is great place for people who have the ability to regurgitate large amounts of information without mental obstacle. Finally College is a place where people who have failed to apply their knowledge tend to hide. It's much easier to just recite the same thing over and over again, As long as you have the aptitude for regurgitating and don't have the courage to explore new topics you may not have the aptitude for.

The thing I find most intriguing about College and professors in general, is their pompous condescending attitudes towards students who naturally struggle with a topic, and not from lack of effort. I find it odd that these same professors who have no "limits" and have a vast "aptitude", weren't the chaps who came up something as simple as "facebook" or "Craig's list" or the pet rock?? What about rubic's cube? I mean instead of making billions of dollars on a simple idea requiring virtually no investment, they would rather make menial wages teaching trigonometry at a community college... makes a lot of sense... to me at-least since I am "limited".

Good day sir.......... thanks to you,March 26th shall forever be: "Discourage a student day".........

'Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Albert Eisenstein
 
Last edited:
lookagain said:
If you use that phrase, then to me it means you're sufficiently poor at math that you can't
pass a higher (college level) math course without needlessly sacrificing studies from other courses
markraz said:
Just because I'm not currently good at something, doesn't mean I shouldn't give it a shot or try to pass the course.

That's a poor analogy, markraz. I'm "terrible" at knocking down bottles with sets of three balls at a carnival booth,
but I might only invest five minutes at the booth, buying three rounds of three sets of balls for the attempt. It is
*irrational* to go into a math course unprepared, invest hundreds of dollars per credit hour on a course, all of the
hours in class, hours outside of class, cost of books and other supplies, as well as it make the other outcomes of
your life obligations due to the pressure of the course suffer.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________



lookagain said:
, and being a burden on the instructor

markraz said:
sure :confused: just cuz I'm paying $800 per credit hour, I certainly would not want to be a "burden" on the instructor.
I mean after-all he is doing me a favor by sharing his infinite wisdom... Are you serious?? Instructors get PAID to TEACH
regardless of a student's aptitude or ambition. College is a business. If I am a paying customer, I expect to get nothing less
than what I pay for, which is service with a smile and service without a pompous attitude.


No, the instructor is a **coach**. You have to put in hours of practice before and after the coaching session to get
something really meaningful out of it. You are not just to show up for class and be fed information as you would be
served food in a restaurant. And, no, the college instructor is **not** there to serve you with a smile. They are
**not** akin to a server in a restaurant, so wipe that false idea out of your mind.



__________________________________________________________________________________________________



lookagain said:
Otherwise, do not use the phrase "terrible at math" to describe yourself.

markraz said:
thanks for the tip, but for the record you can at one time in your life be terrible at something but through
perseverance and hard work one can most certainly get past it. If you don't try you won't excel. I hope you are not a
motivational speaker....no offense

Although the statement in the first sentence is true at times, it will be irrelevant to you here if you are choosing a course
that you can't learn enough between now and when it begins to pass it. The part about "if you don't try you won't excel"
is a false argument, because you are not even in contention for excelling in one of these three math courses.
By your own admission of your status is that you want to be able to *pass* the course, not "excel" in it. And don't make
this about me and my alleged ability of motivational speaking ability. That is deflecting on to me. Emotionalism-based

arguments are not valid.

________________________________________________________________________

\(\displaystyle \ \ \) A coach (in sports) does grade you. He/she decides how good of a player \(\displaystyle \ \ \\ edit\)
\(\displaystyle \ \ \)you are, how much time you get to play, what position, whether you'll
\(\displaystyle \ \ \)remain on the team, etc.
 
Last edited:
No, the instructor is a **coach**. You have to put in hours of practice before and after the coaching session to get
something really meaningful out of it. You are not just to show up for class and be fed information as you would be
served food in a restaurant. And, no, the college instructor is **not** there to serve you with a smile. They are
**not** akin to a server in a restaurant, so wipe that false idea out of your mind.
Not sure an instructor is a "coach" since he tests you, and he grades you. He holds your academic fate in that subject. If he failed to instruct the students properly then they will fail the tests, and he would have failed students in the long run. I had one professor my freshman year that told me: "If more than 1/3 of my class is not doing well, then I'm not doing my job. I have failed to convey the material in a coherent way". That has stuck with me. And he is an excellent teacher. And he taught some very high level computer science classes that most students struggle with worse than maths. The problem in school is, teachers have too much freedom. Too much freedom covering the material and too freedom with generating tests. Providing a student can do the homework problems without errror, the test should be no exception and should be an easy A, otherwise the teacher is being deceptive. So for me, the teacher is there to ensure I and other students learn the material and understand it. Minus the people that just do not study or put in an effort, if core of serious students who do make an honest effort, they should do well. If I am not good at a subject it is the teachers job to present the material to me in such a way that I understand it so I can succeed in the class. If he presents the marterial in a way that only some students comprehend it, then he is not a good instructor and he is not doing his job. What skill is there in looking in a text book and writing it on the board and proclaiming " This is how you do it".

Obviously if several students struggle with a topic then it is not being presented in an clear coherent manner, I can't tell if a math teacher is being clear since I don't already know the material. However I have programmed for a few years and in my C/C++ and assembly language classes clearly teachers have no clue how clearly present topics such as pointers and polymorphism. I watch students struggle, some give up. Knowing how these things work, and watching the teachers trying to convey the topic is quite uncomfortable for. I'm sure math instructions get so complacent they simply forget how to explain it all in layman's terms. In that sense they have provided poor service or customer satisfaction.
 
Last edited:
Top