there seems to be to little info here, no?

allegansveritatem

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Jan 10, 2018
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I broke my head butting it against this problem for over an hour today. I kept coming back to the conclusion that there was just too little information given. Here is the problem:
boat1.PNG

Here is some documentary evidence of a miserable failure to solve it:
boat3.jpg

Here is the solution as presented in the back of the book:
boat2.PNG

This seems like a simple problem and probably it is, but it is not simple to someone who is simpler than it is, namely me.
 
I broke my head butting it against this problem for over an hour today. I kept coming back to the conclusion that there was just too little information given. Here is the problem:
View attachment 10979

Here is some documentary evidence of a miserable failure to solve it:
View attachment 10981

Here is the solution as presented in the back of the book:
View attachment 10980

This seems like a simple problem and probably it is, but it is not simple to someone who is simpler than it is, namely me.

Assume:

The speed of boat in still water = S mph

time to travel 6 miles with the current = Tw = 6/(S+2) hr.

time to travel 6 miles against the current = TA = 6/(S-2) hr.

Then:

6/(S-2) - 6/(S+2) = 1/3

Now solve for "S" -

the given answer is correct.
 
A li'l diagram always helps; b = boat speed, u = time with current

@(b-2).............6..............>u+1/3 [1]

@(b+2)............6..............>u [2]

[1]: (b-2) * (u+1/3) = 6
solve for u to get:
u = (20-b)/(3b-6)

[2]: (b+2) * u = 6
solve for u to get:
u = 6/(b+2)

So we now have:
(20-b)/(3b-6) = 6/(b+2)

Solve for b.
Wrapper up!
 
Assume:

The speed of boat in still water = S mph

time to travel 6 miles with the current = Tw = 6/(S+2) hr.

time to travel 6 miles against the current = TA = 6/(S-2) hr.

Then:

6/(S-2) - 6/(S+2) = 1/3

Now solve for "S" -

the given answer is correct.

I think I see it. I actually did something like this in one of my attempts...but went astray somehow. I spent some time thinking about the fact that the only mention of time was not of total time but of a tiny swatch of time., namely a third of an hour. I will work along the lines above suggested and see what I come up with...in the morning. I am suffering from late night brain-wreck right now. Thanks
 
A li'l diagram always helps; b = boat speed, u = time with current

@(b-2).............6..............>u+1/3 [1]

@(b+2)............6..............>u [2]

[1]: (b-2) * (u+1/3) = 6
solve for u to get:
u = (20-b)/(3b-6)

[2]: (b+2) * u = 6
solve for u to get:
u = 6/(b+2)

So we now have:
(20-b)/(3b-6) = 6/(b+2)

Solve for b.
Wrapper up!

I have copied your post and the one above so I can work on them tomorrow. You are going at it somewhat differently than the previous poster. I have to shop and compare. Thanks very much for working through it. I had a harrowing time of it today but tomorrow I will knock the guy down for sure. Thanks.
 
Subhotosh's way is shorter than mine.
I simply showed you an alternate way.
 
I went at this again today, armed this time with better instruction thanks to the contributors at this site. I tried both methods suggested, got a little tangled up with one method ( I will work that one out too probably tomorrow just for giggles) so used the other which seemed to be simpler. I did not merely, however, just copy the work of another but explained things to myself as I went along. Thanks to Subhotosh and Denis for replies. Here is my solution:

solution3.jpg
 
I went at this again today, armed this time with better instruction thanks to the contributors at this site. I tried both methods suggested, got a little tangled up with one method ( I will work that one out too probably tomorrow just for giggles) so used the other which seemed to be simpler. I did not merely, however, just copy the work of another but explained things to myself as I went along. Thanks to Subhotosh and Denis for replies. Here is my solution:

View attachment 10984
You need to define - what 'x' is!!
 
I am going to go at this a completely different way.

You must define things to keep your mind from spinning. And, in the real world, you must frequently look for additional information beyond what is explicitly told to you and deal with multiple unknowns. So here is my method, which works every time without benefit of insight or familiarity with a specific type of problem.

attachment.php


Your first question was that there seemed to be too little information. GREAT QUESTION.

Identify the potentially relevant numbers that are unknown and name them.

\(\displaystyle x = \text {speed of boat in still water (no current).}\)

\(\displaystyle s_d = \text {speed downstream (with current).}\)

\(\displaystyle s_u = \text {speed upstream (against current).}\)

\(\displaystyle t_d = \text {time downstream (with current).}\)

\(\displaystyle t_u = \text {time upstream (against current).}\)

Five unknowns. So you need five numeric relationships that can be made into equations to find these numbers. But the problem explicitly gives you only three numbers and one numeric relationship. Notice that you have not really done any math yet. You have been thinking about the problem. Well let's write down the one relationship we do know explicitly.

\(\displaystyle \text {I: } t_u = t_d + \dfrac{1}{3}.\)

We need four more relationships that are not explicitly given in the problem. Do I know a relationship between speed, time, and distance? Yes, I do

\(\displaystyle \text {II: } 6 = s_u * t_u.\)

\(\displaystyle \text {III: } 6 = s_d * t_d.\)

Do I know anything about speeds and currents? Yes, I do.

\(\displaystyle \text {IV: } s_u = x - 2.\)

\(\displaystyle \text {V: } s_d = x + 2.\)

This is just putting what you know into mathematical language. It is thinking. You think before you do math mechanics. But now we have a system of five equations in five unknowns. There is a purely mechanical way to solve it: substitution.

\(\displaystyle 6 = s_u * t_u \implies t_u = \dfrac{6}{s_u}.\)

\(\displaystyle 6 = s_d * t_d \implies t_d = \dfrac{6}{s_d}.\)

\(\displaystyle t_u = t_d + \dfrac{1}{3} \implies t_u - t_d = \dfrac{1}{3}.\)

\(\displaystyle \therefore \dfrac{6}{s_u} - \dfrac{6}{s_d} = \dfrac{1}{3}.\)

\(\displaystyle \therefore \dfrac{6}{x - 2} - \dfrac{6}{x + 2} = \dfrac{1}{3}.\)

What Subhotosh did in his head. But I am not as smart as Subhotosh so I must do it slowly.

Now it is a piece of cake. Multiply both sides of the equation by 3(x - 2)(x + 2) to clear fractions.

\(\displaystyle 18(x + 2) - 18(x - 2) = (x + 2)(x - 2) \implies 36 + 36 = x^2 - 4 \implies\)

\(\displaystyle x^2 = 76 = 4 * 19 \implies x = 2\sqrt{19}.\)

If you "see" what Subhotosh saw, then by all means do it that way because it is quick. If you struggle to "see" something, then get systematic: identify and name the relevant unknown numbers, find n relationships involving n unknowns, turn those into equations, and solve by substitution.
 
I am going to go at this a completely different way.

You must define things to keep your mind from spinning. And, in the real world, you must frequently look for additional information beyond what is explicitly told to you and deal with multiple unknowns. So here is my method, which works every time without benefit of insight or familiarity with a specific type of problem.

attachment.php


Your first question was that there seemed to be too little information. GREAT QUESTION.

Identify the potentially relevant numbers that are unknown and name them.

\(\displaystyle x = \text {speed of boat in still water (no current).}\)

\(\displaystyle s_d = \text {speed downstream (with current).}\)

\(\displaystyle s_u = \text {speed upstream (against current).}\)

\(\displaystyle t_d = \text {time downstream (with current).}\)

\(\displaystyle t_u = \text {time upstream (against current).}\)

Five unknowns. So you need five numeric relationships that can be made into equations to find these numbers. But the problem explicitly gives you only three numbers and one numeric relationship. Notice that you have not really done any math yet. You have been thinking about the problem. Well let's write down the one relationship we do know explicitly.

\(\displaystyle \text {I: } t_u = t_d + \dfrac{1}{3}.\)

We need four more relationships that are not explicitly given in the problem. Do I know a relationship between speed, time, and distance? Yes, I do

\(\displaystyle \text {II: } 6 = s_u * t_u.\)

\(\displaystyle \text {III: } 6 = s_d * t_d.\)

Do I know anything about speeds and currents? Yes, I do.

\(\displaystyle \text {IV: } s_u = x - 2.\)

\(\displaystyle \text {V: } s_d = x + 2.\)

This is just putting what you know into mathematical language. It is thinking. You think before you do math mechanics. But now we have a system of five equations in five unknowns. There is a purely mechanical way to solve it: substitution.

\(\displaystyle 6 = s_u * t_u \implies t_u = \dfrac{6}{s_u}.\)

\(\displaystyle 6 = s_d * t_d \implies t_d = \dfrac{6}{s_d}.\)

\(\displaystyle t_u = t_d + \dfrac{1}{3} \implies t_u - t_d = \dfrac{1}{3}.\)

\(\displaystyle \therefore \dfrac{6}{s_u} - \dfrac{6}{s_d} = \dfrac{1}{3}.\)

\(\displaystyle \therefore \dfrac{6}{x - 2} - \dfrac{6}{x + 2} = \dfrac{1}{3}.\)

What Subhotosh did in his head. But I am not as smart as Subhotosh so I must do it slowly.

Now it is a piece of cake. Multiply both sides of the equation by 3(x - 2)(x + 2) to clear fractions.

\(\displaystyle 18(x + 2) - 18(x - 2) = (x + 2)(x - 2) \implies 36 + 36 = x^2 - 4 \implies\)

\(\displaystyle x^2 = 76 = 4 * 19 \implies x = 2\sqrt{19}.\)

If you "see" what Subhotosh saw, then by all means do it that way because it is quick. If you struggle to "see" something, then get systematic: identify and name the relevant unknown numbers, find n relationships involving n unknowns, turn those into equations, and solve by substitution.

Well, I think I tend to jump into these problems and hope for the best...but I confess after a week or two when I come upon another similar problem I approach it with fear and trembling and much wondering what to do. I will copy your post, print it and keep it in my book so that next time I get thrown against a bunch of word problems I will have some guidance re what to do. Thanks for posting this.
 
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