Chefs Learning Trigonometry

jtayag0622

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Why study those reciprocals? or even the basic trig ratios? I won't use them in cooking, buying coke in 7/11, or even when I go to the bathroom. Is there, by any chance, that I'm gonna use this in this real world(real world as in you are at home, or at the office working to die, etc.)
 
Why study those reciprocals? or even the basic trig ratios? I won't use them in cooking, buying coke in 7/11, or even when I go to the bathroom. Is there, by any chance, that I'm gonna use this in this real world(real world as in you are at home, or at the office working to die, etc.)
The question is what do you plan on doing in your office? If you are the file clerk, you won't even use arithmetic in the office. If you are an electrical engineer, you may well use calculus in the office, and then you will need trig substitutions.

There is a perfectly valid argument to be made that it is a tremendous waste of resources to school the incompetent or the lazy as well as a frustrating cause of delay in educating the talented and diligent. However, many countries have decided that every child must be educated to some limited degree in just about everything In the US, this societal decision has been taken so far that it requires millions of students, who will never use any math beyond basic arithmetic after graduation, to study at least algebra. Students who want a college degree may even be forced to study calculus. If you have no interest in math or any of the fields dependent on math (such as the physical sciences), then studying math is merely an academic rite of passage in the course of getting a degree. Like all rites of passage, it has no real meaning outside of the social norms of the community. In the US, if you want to say that you have received an academic high school degree, you have to pass some tests in algebra first.

As you point out, you do not need math to go to the bathroom. Of course, to go to the bathroom, you don't need English or gym either. Indeed there is no need of even primary education to go to the bathroom: the huge majority of kindergartners are perfectly capable of doing so before they even matriculate in grade school. However, the state, in its infinite wisdom, has decided that all citizens be given the opportunity to receive an education with a higher minimal level of competence than merely knowing how to flush. (It is not clear to me that a high school degree in the US requires much more than that, but I am confident that the level is somewhat higher.)

Perhaps you are asking the somewhat deeper question of why did anyone dream up these functions. They originally came up in studying triangles, out of which all rectilinear closed forms can be constructed. So they have practical uses in surveying, navigation, construction, engineering, and architecture. It was later discovered that they can be applied to circles and thus are fundamental to the mathematical analysis of all cyclical phenomena. It also turns out that trig functions are required to solve problems in calculus, and thus those relatively advanced fields that are dependent on calculus (such as physics and the engineering based on physics) also use trig.

Or perhaps you are asking whether we absolutely need six trig functions to use trig. The answer is that we do not. We could work with just one function (either the sine, cosine, secant, or cosecant). If you have done problems involving the law of sines, you could restate that law in terms of cosines, but it would take longer to use the law if stated in terms of the square root of 1 minus the square of the cosine and would be harder to remember. Limiting the trig functions to one would make formulas involving trig much more complex and much more difficult to use, but we could do it.
 
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Why study those reciprocals? or even the basic trig ratios? I won't use them in cooking, buying coke in 7/11, or even when I go to the bathroom. Is there, by any chance, that I'm gonna use this in this real world(real world as in you are at home, or at the office working to die, etc.)
Well, all you need to do is memorize a couple of them;
they sound "impressive", so you can quote a few at the
local bar and impress everybody within earshot :rolleyes:
 
Well, all you need to do is memorize a couple of them;
they sound "impressive", so you can quote a few at the
local bar and impress everybody within earshot :rolleyes:
Is that what you do?
 
Why study those reciprocals? or even the basic trig ratios? I won't use them in cooking, buying coke in 7/11, or even when I go to the bathroom. Is there, by any chance, that I'm gonna use this in this real world(real world as in you are at home, or at the office working to die, etc.)
At home: Suppose you want to buy a ladder so you can get to the roof of your house to do some repairs but you do not know the height of your house. Now you can go to the ladder store and buy a ladder hoping it is tall enough and if it isn't you can go back and get another ladder OR at your desk you can calculate the length of the ladder you need. Do you see how you can do that?
Another answer I like to give is that mathematics teaches you how to think and knowing how to think is invaluable.
 
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Why study those reciprocals?
You tell us! Are you a student, trying to earn a grade or credits? If so, then you ought to study everything assigned to you. Otherwise, why bother taking the class?


… Is there [any chance] that I'm [going to] use this in [the] real world …
It seems like you're missing the point completely. The government doesn't require citizens to study mathematics because they believe everyone needs to use what they've learned after graduation. Society needs citizens who have a well-rounded education, to be problem solvers in all walks of life. Studying complex systems (eg: math, foreign language, philosophy, natural sciences, logic) grows the brain -- literally! When you exert mental effort to comprehend and use these systems, your brain creates thousands of additional connections. Modern neuroscience has proven that, and it's also clear that educated people have critical thinking skills, are quicker on their feet, are more innovative in their approach to dealing with life issues and succeed more easily than those who eat their dust.

Have you heard the adage, "There's no such thing as a free ride"?

Think about these things, then change your attitude and get to work! The world needs for you to become successful and to contribute to society. :cool:
 
I heard in the Philippines the president once said that he wanted to get rid of the so high algebra in high school and replace it with pure business math he thinks it would benefit students more than studying calculus.

My stand is to just learn what you need for what you wanna be. Well i wanna be a chef and i won't need calculus to chop veggies. but don't get me wrong, i like math and i basically know those 6 trig functions, at least the ratios and how to use them in solving rt triangle problems. it's just that i don't see any necessity for me to learn those, and I'm with millions of students who feel the same way. I do good in math and i never get failing grades coz i wanna do good in math. just up to what i really need, i hope. We can say that math is just right here and there but the truth is, you just love math that's why you do better. and that's the point, how about those who won't need calculus? trigs? should they really need to spend a big portion of their lives just to study them whereas they won't need it anyway, ? why not focus on giving them lectures about what they really wanna be? at least to the professional jobs that they really want? perhaps a lot more youth will go to college or life would be bettern than ever if that what the government does. you love math, pursue it. you wanna be an engineer?, be good at math. you wanna be a chef? come on, skip calculus and study business math.

that's what I've been thinking in the past few years. learning to be a solver doesn't mean you need so advanced math like trig or cal. as long as the education gives the proper tool for every field they wanna be. well everything's gonna be okay.

going to the bathroom... well i just said it out of my burst of feelings... haha. sorry.

thank you so much for your answers. i really do appreciate them. let's all be friends and help each other, math lovers and not-so-interested-in-math folks.

PS. Please still help in Math and don't get mad at me :(
 
I heard in the Philippines the president once said that he wanted to get rid of the so high algebra in high school and replace it with pure business math he thinks it would benefit students more than studying calculus.

My stand is to just learn what you need for what you wanna be. Well i wanna be a chef and i won't need calculus to chop veggies. but don't get me wrong, i like math and i basically know those 6 trig functions, at least the ratios and how to use them in solving rt triangle problems. it's just that i don't see any necessity for me to learn those, and I'm with millions of students who feel the same way. I do good in math and i never get failing grades coz i wanna do good in math. just up to what i really need, i hope. We can say that math is just right here and there but the truth is, you just love math that's why you do better. and that's the point, how about those who won't need calculus? trigs? should they really need to spend a big portion of their lives just to study them whereas they won't need it anyway, ? why not focus on giving them lectures about what they really wanna be? at least to the professional jobs that they really want? perhaps a lot more youth will go to college or life would be bettern than ever if that what the government does. you love math, pursue it. you wanna be an engineer?, be good at math. you wanna be a chef? come on, skip calculus and study business math.

that's what I've been thinking in the past few years. learning to be a solver doesn't mean you need so advanced math like trig or cal. as long as the education gives the proper tool for every field they wanna be. well everything's gonna be okay.

going to the bathroom... well i just said it out of my burst of feelings... haha. sorry.

thank you so much for your answers. i really do appreciate them. let's all be friends and help each other, math lovers and not-so-interested-in-math folks.

PS. Please still help in Math and don't get mad at me :(
If you are really sure that you want to be Chef - and not an engineer or Physicist - you do not need trigonometry.

However, if you change your mind (chef to engineer) you will be behind - I mean really behind. The door will be practically close.

At what grade do you think the door should be shut and you should not be allowed to change your mind after that??!!

If you learn trigonometry - you still can be a great Chef. But if you do not know trigonometry - best you could do as a professional is to learn to push buttons (and we have plethora of those).
 
I heard in the Philippines the president once said that he wanted to get rid of the so high algebra in high school and replace it with pure business math he thinks it would benefit students more than studying calculus.

My stand is to just learn what you need for what you wanna be. Well i wanna be a chef and i won't need calculus to chop veggies. but don't get me wrong, i like math and i basically know those 6 trig functions, at least the ratios and how to use them in solving rt triangle problems. it's just that i don't see any necessity for me to learn those, and I'm with millions of students who feel the same way. I do good in math and i never get failing grades coz i wanna do good in math. just up to what i really need, i hope. We can say that math is just right here and there but the truth is, you just love math that's why you do better. and that's the point, how about those who won't need calculus? trigs? should they really need to spend a big portion of their lives just to study them whereas they won't need it anyway, ? why not focus on giving them lectures about what they really wanna be? at least to the professional jobs that they really want? perhaps a lot more youth will go to college or life would be bettern than ever if that what the government does. you love math, pursue it. you wanna be an engineer?, be good at math. you wanna be a chef? come on, skip calculus and study business math.

that's what I've been thinking in the past few years. learning to be a solver doesn't mean you need so advanced math like trig or cal. as long as the education gives the proper tool for every field they wanna be. well everything's gonna be okay.

going to the bathroom... well i just said it out of my burst of feelings... haha. sorry.

thank you so much for your answers. i really do appreciate them. let's all be friends and help each other, math lovers and not-so-interested-in-math folks.

PS. Please still help in Math and don't get mad at me :(
I have taught math many years at a community college. Initially I felt that students needed to learn algebra in order to get a degree. I still feel that way. The issue is that students are passing algebra without really learning anything-and some of them get decent grades.

Here is what I noticed was happening. Students were getting grades of B without getting but 1 or 2 questions correct on exams. How did they do this? They made conceptual mistakes on almost every problem and with (rigorous) partial credit they stilled earned a B. So in the end students are passing Algebra but not learning much. So should they continue making algebra a requisite for graduating college? Should passing a course mean that you can do 70% of the problems correctly or should passing be that you have a 70% average on your exams. My chairperson agrees with me that passing should be getting 70% of the problems correctly but says it will never happen as the passing rate will be extremely low-like 10-15%.

The real answer in my opinion is that high schools are not doing a good job teaching math. They tell little Jose that if he memorizes these dry steps that he will do well on the exam. Do high school teachers know what it means to learn the material or is it all about getting decent marks from their students. I teach in a way that students can actually understand the material. I have students telling me all the time that I am their first math teacher who expects them to understand the material. This all depresses me.
 
If you are really sure that you want to be Chef - and not an engineer or Physicist - you do not need trigonometry.

However, if you change your mind (chef to engineer) you will be behind - I mean really behind. The door will be practically close.

At what grade do you think the door should be shut and you should not be allowed to change your mind after that??!!

If you learn trigonometry - you still can be a great Chef. But if you do not know trigonometry - best you could do as a professional is to learn to push buttons (and we have plethora of those).
Very good points!
 
:idea: All chefs use numbers. All chefs are problem solvers.

Studying math increases your number sense and your ability to solve a wide variety of problems. These are not a function of whether you use everything you've studied later in life.

Successful chefs are business people. Successful business people have good number sense and a wide variety of problem-solving skills.

Why handicap your future success (not to mention your brain's efficiencies), by belittling or dismissing parts of your current studies?

Perhaps, you would be satisfied as a career prep cook. :idea:
 
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What if you are preparing a pie where you know that 8 or 9 guests will be sharing it equally. This problem may not use Trig, but you need math sense to figure out how to cut the pie. Hint you need 16 pieces to get the smallest number of pieces needed so that you can give the guests, whether there are 8 or 9, the size piece
 
What if you are preparing a pie where you know that 8 or 9 guests will be sharing it equally. This problem may not use Trig, but you need math sense to figure out how to cut the pie. Hint you need 16 pieces to get the smallest number of pieces needed so that you can give the guests, whether there are 8 or 9, the size piece
If you get 9 guests - what are you going to do with the left-over 7 pieces (after each guest gets 1 piece - and yourself none)?
 
If you get 9 guests - what are you going to do with the left-over 7 pieces (after each guest gets 1 piece - and yourself none)?
You cut the pie into 9 equal pieces. In addition to cutting 9 equal pieces you cut one of those pieces in 8 smaller pieces. If 9 people come, they each get 1/9 of the pie with one person (Denis) getting 8 small pieces. If only 8 comes, then they each get one big piece and one small piece. This is called pi math.
 
You cut the pie into 9 equal pieces. In addition to cutting 9 equal pieces you cut one of those pieces in 8 smaller pieces. If 9 people come, they each get 1/9 of the pie with one person (Denis) getting 8 small pieces. If only 8 comes, then they each get one big piece and one small piece. This is called pi math.

Well... why so broad? never said a chef wouldn't need Math. just said a chef won't need calculus or trig or any so-advanced Math. lecturing me with those won't change anything. Everybody uses Math, needs Math. But not everyone needs Math as far and as high as you know folks. I already told not to misunderstand me but you keep telling me a chef needs Math, is a problem solver. Of course! they are, of course they do! but to what extent? Again, does a chef need calculus? I think no. he needs math. but not agonizing Math. Pi? well i definitely believe I won't make pi. never in my life.

I won't reply anymore to this thread. hope you guys understand . many struggles understanding why they need to learn unnecessary Math in their life. what Math they need is a Math that they will use to their career.
 
… I won't reply anymore to this thread …
I think your mind was made up, before you started this thread.

… many struggles understanding why they need to learn unnecessary Math in their life …
You're not interested in understanding, and you don't know what's generally necessary; these continued struggles are a waste of time. :cool:
 
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