rational "group" as a class

shahar

Full Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2018
Messages
497
In formal way two a/b and c/d fraction with positive denominator and nominator represent the same number, if the equation: ad = ac exists. If the denominator and nominator are coprime integer, then the fraction called reduced fraction. In this attitude, rational number is a class of numbers that every numbers equal to each other by their size, or in formal words, are different names of the same number.
Why the text treats the rational as a class and not a group?
 
In formal way two a/b and c/d fraction with positive denominator and nominator represent the same number, if the equation: ad = ac exists. If the denominator and nominator are coprime integer, then the fraction called reduced fraction. In this attitude, rational number is a class of numbers that every numbers equal to each other by their size, or in formal words, are different names of the same number.
Why the text treats the rational as a class and not a group?
How are you defining the word "group"? This certainly is not a group in the mathematical sense, so why do you want to use that word?

Incidentally, the word is "numerator", not "nominator"; I don't know what word you intended by "attitude", but perhaps it is "point of view". But the major error in what you say is that a rational number is not a class of numbers, but an equivalence class of ordered pairs. In this context, the word "class" has a careful definition, and that definition is exactly what it needs to be. "Group" has an entirely different definition.
 
One reason may be that “group” already has a specific meaning in mathematics. In English in general, “class,”, “group,” and “set” are effectively synonyms, but that is not true of their specialized meanings in mathematics.

Another reason may be (I studied this over fifty years ago so my recollection may be faulty), the phrase “equivalence class” is used to identify an infinite set, each member of which is a different way to identify the same number.

EDIT I was writing my response when Dr. P posted his. He is correct, and I was not careful enough to say, that the members of an equivalence class are ordered pairs of numbers.
 
Last edited:
O.K. I mean by the word group to set. Sorry. I still didn't understand why it a class and isn't set.
Why the rational set is a class and is not set?
 
As I implied, an “equivalence class” is a special kind of set. it is an infinite set of ordered pairs of numbers (in this case integers), each of which identifies the same number (in this case a rational number).

We try to be as precise in our language as we can. We are not talking about any set. We are talking about sets that have special properties. And the standard name for such a set is “equivalence class.”
 
O.K. I mean by the word group to set. Sorry. I still didn't understand why it a class and isn't set.
Why the rational set is a class and is not set?
Words are important! And words in mathematics are given very careful definitions that are different from their ordinary usage, as JeffM well said. We commonly take some vague word and assign it a much more specific meaning. Often the choice is ultimately random.

If you are talking about a textbook in English, you need to be using the words used there, as they define them. If you are talking about a textbook in Hebrew, you have to use their words, and be very careful about translating them to English when asking questions about them. This can be very tricky; what you think is a synonym may not be.

To a mathematician, a group is a set associated with an operation with specific properties; it is not the same thing as a set.

The word "set" is very general, and refers to any collection of anything (though it is given a precise definition in some branches of set theory).

The word "class" doesn't, in general, have such a precise meaning (except sometimes); but the phrase "equivalence class" does. Why was the word "class" chosen there rather than "equivalence set"? Who knows? That's just the way it is; there doesn't have to be a reason. (And, of course, in other languages, other words are used just as arbitrarily!)

But please observe that the rational numbers are a set of numbers; each rational number, defined as you describe, is itself an equivalence class of ordered pairs, which is not quite the same idea as a mere set. Are you just being lazy when you say "rational set", and not taking the trouble to say what you mean, or are you confused about this difference?
 
Top