¿How do I prove that a limit is wrong using the formal definition of limit?

nombreuso

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If I have a limit, 3x as x approaches 2, for example, and say it equals 7, how can I prove my statement is false using the formal definition of limit?
Another question I have is, how can I prove that the limit of a constant is the constant itself with teh formal definition of limit?
 
If I have a limit, 3x as x approaches 2, for example, and say it equals 7, how can I prove my statement is false using the formal definition of limit?
Another question I have is, how can I prove that the limit of a constant is the constant itself with the formal definition of limit?
Give it a try so we can see how close you come.

For the first question, set it up to show what would have to be true if it were the limit, and then show that it isn't.

The second should be so easy, you may just be missing the fact that you are finished.
 
That is actually two different questions.

With respect to the first, what must be true if 7 is the limit of 3x as x approaches 2?
 
That is actually two different questions.

With respect to the first, what must be true if 7 is the limit of 3x as x approaches 2?
Thinking this way, 6 should approach to 7, which is wrong. But when trying with the formal definition, I just get confused.
 
Give it a try so we can see how close you come.

For the first question, set it up to show what would have to be true if it were the limit, and then show that it isn't.

The second should be so easy, you may just be missing the fact that you are finished.
I have tried, and I end up with 2*absolute value of (x - 7/2) < épsilon and 0< absolute value of (x-3) < delta, but I don't know what to do next.
 
I have tried, and I end up with 2*absolute value of (x - 7/2) < épsilon and 0< absolute value of (x-3) < delta, but I don't know what to do next.
A disproof requires only a counterexample. Can you find an epsilon such that no delta could work? You might try picturing both intervals on a number line, and look for a case where the intervals can't overlap at all.
 
A disproof requires only a counterexample. Can you find an epsilon such that no delta could work? You might try picturing both intervals on a number line, and look for a case where the intervals can't overlap at all.
This is where I get confused the most. Is there really a case where no delta would work. Since any delta is valid, and the absolute value of x-3 will always be a positive number, I can always pick a larger number and use it as delta. Wait, how can there be an epsilon such that no delta could work? Could you give me an example about that? I start to feel like I'm missing something about the formal definition of limit.
 
This is where I get confused the most. Is there really a case where no delta would work. Since any delta is valid, and the absolute value of x-3 will always be a positive number, I can always pick a larger number and use it as delta. Wait, how can there be an epsilon such that no delta could work? Could you give me an example about that? I start to feel like I'm missing something about the formal definition of limit.

The interval associated with epsilon is centered on 3.5. The interval associated with delta is centered on 3. The definition of the limit requires that for any given epsilon, there is an interval about 3 that is entirely contained in the given interval about 3.5. (I erred in suggesting no overlap.) Do you see why I say that? This is an essential part of the definition.

What if 3 is not within your interval about 3.5 at all?
 
The interval associated with epsilon is centered on 3.5. The interval associated with delta is centered on 3. The definition of the limit requires that for any given epsilon, there is an interval about 3 that is entirely contained in the given interval about 3.5. (I erred in suggesting no overlap.) Do you see why I say that? This is an essential part of the definition.

What if 3 is not within your interval about 3.5 at all?
So you imply that both statements must be true for not just one x but all of them in the interval? Then that is why I was so confused. So, for epsilon = 0.001, there isn't any interval around 3 so that for all x values within the interval 3x is in the interval around 3.5. I think I undertood. Still, it was a little tricky and I only got it because I already knew what the function's value at x=2 was. I wonder if there is a more algebraic way to do this.
 
So you imply that both statements must be true for not just one x but all of them in the interval? Then that is why I was so confused. So, for epsilon = 0.001, there isn't any interval around 3 so that for all x values within the interval 3x is in the interval around 3.5. I think I understood. Still, it was a little tricky and I only got it because I already knew what the function's value at x=2 was. I wonder if there is a more algebraic way to do this.
I was assuming you knew the definition (but asked you to show work in order to see if you did, and we could talk about it). It says that for any epsilon, there must be some delta such that for every x within delta of a, f(x) is within epsilon of L.

The details vary between functions; but counterexamples generally don't need much work. It's because your function is linear that it takes almost no work at all.
 
I was assuming you knew the definition (but asked you to show work in order to see if you did, and we could talk about it). It says that for any epsilon, there must be some delta such that for every x within delta of a, f(x) is within epsilon of L.

The details vary between functions; but counterexamples generally don't need much work. It's because your function is linear that it takes almost no work at all.
I knew the definition, and I thought I understood it. Since i was just shown the definition but not explained what it meant, I didn't really understand it , I always thought about limits graphically. Thanks to your explanation, now I understand it.
 
Here is an important lemma.

[MATH]L = \lim_{x \rightarrow a} f(x) \text { and } L < K \implies K \ne \lim_{x \rightarrow a} f(x).[/MATH]
Here is a proof.

[MATH]\text {By definition, for any positive } \epsilon, \ L = \lim_{x \rightarrow a} f(x) \implies[/MATH]
[MATH]\exists \ \delta_1 \text { such that } 0 < |x - a| < \delta_1 \implies 0 \le |f(x) - L| < \epsilon.[/MATH]
[MATH]\therefore 0 < |x - a| < \delta_1 \implies - \epsilon < f(x) - L < \epsilon \implies L - \epsilon < f(x) < L + \epsilon.[/MATH]
[MATH]\text {ASSUME, for purposes of contradiction, that } \lim_{x \rightarrow a} f(x) = K.[/MATH]
[MATH]\therefore \text {By definition, for any positive } \epsilon, \ K = \lim_{x \rightarrow a} f(x) \implies[/MATH]
[MATH]\exists \ \delta_2 \text { such that } 0 < |x - a| < \delta_2 \implies 0 \le |f(x) - K| < \epsilon.[/MATH]
[MATH]\therefore 0 < |x - a| < \delta_2 \implies - \epsilon < f(x) - K < \epsilon \implies K - \epsilon < f(x) < K + \epsilon.[/MATH]
[MATH]\text {Let } \epsilon = \dfrac{K - L}{2} \text { and } \delta = \text {min}(\delta_1,\ \delta_2).[/MATH]
[MATH]\therefore 0 < |x - a| < \delta \implies f(x) < L + \epsilon = L + \dfrac{K - L}{2} = \dfrac{K + L}{2} \implies[/MATH]
[MATH]f(x) < \dfrac{K + L}{2}.[/MATH]
[MATH]\text { And } 0 < |x - a| < \delta \implies K - \epsilon < f(x) \implies K - \dfrac{K - L}{2} < f(x) \implies[/MATH]
[MATH]\dfrac{K + L}{2} < f(x).[/MATH]
[MATH]\therefore 0 < |x - a| < \delta \implies \dfrac{K + L}{2} < f(x) < \dfrac{K + L}{2}, \text { which is impossible.}[/MATH]
[MATH]\text {THUS, } K \ne \lim_{x \rightarrow a} f(x).\ \text {Q.E.D.}[/MATH]
An almost identical proof supports this additional lemma:

[MATH]L = \lim_{x \rightarrow a} f(x) \text { and } L > K \implies K \ne \lim_{x \rightarrow a} f(x).[/MATH]
The two lemmas together prove the theorem

[MATH]L = \lim_{x \rightarrow a} f(x) \text { and } L \ne K \implies K \ne \lim_{x \rightarrow a} f(x).[/MATH]
In English, if a limit exists, it is unique.
 
I did not read all the posts.

You learned that a limit is unique. So if you prove that lim as x approaches 2 of 3x is 6, then you proved that the limit is not 7.
 
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