definition of 'i'

MathGodMilo

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Joined
Sep 12, 2020
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2
Hi,

I just made this up and since now I dont understand 'i' anymore (imaginary number):

--
i = √(-1)
i^2 = -1

-1*-1=1
i^2*i^2=1
i^4=1
i = 4√(1)
i = 1 v i = -1

but:
-1^2 ≠-1
1^2 ≠ -1
or is it?
--

Can anyone explain what I just did or not?
 
Hi,

I just made this up and since now I dont understand 'i' anymore (imaginary number):

--
i = √(-1)
i^2 = -1

-1*-1=1
i^2*i^2=1
i^4=1
i = 4√(1)
i = 1 v i = -1

but:
-1^2 ≠-1
1^2 ≠ -1
or is it?
--

Can anyone explain what I just did or not?
I am not sure "what" did you do above!

For the last two operations (below "but" and above "or is it") - you are missing "parentheses" (). Those should be "clear" if you write:

-1^2 = -(1*1) = -1

(-1)^2 = (-1) * (-1) = 1 ...........................no "buts" or confusion with proper parentheses.
 
i^4=1
i = 4√(1)

The above two lines don't directly follow. In a quadratic you probably know that there are usually 2 solutions. Similarly with a quartic, or 4th degree polynomial, it potentially has 4 distinct solutions. In the case above...

x^4=1 actually implies that x=1, x=-1, x=i OR x=-i

Therefore it is wrong to pick just one of the above results and say that i is equal to that. (The "nthroot" operator will give you the +ve real result only).
 
The problem is that every complex number, except 0, has two square roots. With positive real numbers, since every real number is either 0 or positive or negative, so the two square roots are one positive and one negative, we define the square root of a to be the positive root. The complex numbers do not have the "trichotomy" property so we cannot do that.

If you want a really valid definition of "i" start by defining the "complex numbers.

The complex numbers are defined as the set of all pairs of real numbers, (a, b) with addition defined by (a, b)+ (c, d)= (a+ c, b+ d) and multiplication defined by (a, b)*(c, d)= (ac- bd, ad+ bc). It just takes a little algebra to show that addition and multiplication are "associative" and "commutative" and that multiplication "distributes" over addition.

(0, 0) is the additive identity, (-a, -b) is the additive inverse of (a, b), (1, 0) is the multiplicative identity, and (a/(a^2+ b^2), -b/(a^2+ b^2)) is the multiplicative inverse of (a, b) as long as (a, b) is not (0, 0).

Then (a, 0)*(c, 0)= (ac- 0, 0)= (ac, 0) so we identify (a, 0) with the real number a so. In this sense, the real numbers are a subset of the complex numbers. But (0, b)*(0, d)= (0- bd, 0)= (-bd, 0). In particular, while (1, 0) is the multiplicative identity, (1, 0)*(a, b)= (a, b), identified with the number, "1", (0, b) has the property that its square is (0, b)* (0, b)= (0- b^2, 0)= (-b^2, 0) which we identify with the real number -b^2. In particular, (0, 1)*(0, 1)= (-1, 0) which we identify with the real number -1. We give the complex number (0, 1) the label "i" so i^2= -1.

Of course (a, b)= (a, 0)+ (0, b)= a+ b(0, 1)= a+ bi. With those definitions and identifications, we avoid the problem you have. i is NOT just the "square root of -1" (Which one? There are two!) but is specifically (0, 1). not (0, -1).
 
Last edited:
I just made this up and since now I dont understand 'i' anymore (imaginary number):
--
i = √(-1) , i^2 = -1
Can anyone explain what I just did or not?
In the set of real numbers there is no solution for the simple equation \(x^2+1=0\).
However, If we define \(i\) as a solution to that equation .
Now enlarge the set of real numbers by the addition of \(i\) the problem is solved,
If effect, \(i^2=-1\) moreover \((-i)^2=i^2=-1\). Giving us two square roots of the number \(-1\).
You can carefully read reply #4 to see how we can develop the system of complex numbers.
 
Hi,

I just made this up and since now I dont understand 'i' anymore (imaginary number):

--
i = √(-1)
i^2 = -1

-1*-1=1
i^2*i^2=1
i^4=1
i = 4√(1)
i = 1 v i = -1

but:
-1^2 ≠-1
1^2 ≠ -1
or is it?
--

Can anyone explain what I just did or not?
The answers above are all great.

But whoever taught you that

[MATH]i = \sqrt{-1}[/MATH],

TAUGHT YOU INCORRECTLY.

The correct definition of i is that

[MATH]i^2 = - 1.[/MATH]
One implication of this is

[MATH](-i)^2 = \{(-1)i\}^2 = (-1)^2 * i^2 = 1 * (-1) = - 1.[/MATH]
In short, [MATH](-i)^2 = - 1 = i^2.[/MATH]
This should not be a strange result.

[MATH](-2)^2 = 4 = (2^2).[/MATH]
 
The answers above are all great.

But whoever taught you that

[MATH]i = \sqrt{-1}[/MATH],

TAUGHT YOU INCORRECTLY.

The correct definition of i is that

[MATH]i^2 = - 1.[/MATH]

However, as I said above, even that is not a good definition since there are two numbers, in the complex numbers, that satisfy that. Which of them is "i"?

One implication of this is

[MATH](-i)^2 = \{(-1)i\}^2 = (-1)^2 * i^2 = 1 * (-1) = - 1.[/MATH]
In short, [MATH](-i)^2 = - 1 = i^2.[/MATH]
This should not be a strange result.

[MATH](-2)^2 = 4 = (2^2).[/MATH]
 
I am missing the point of your objection. Nothing in my definition of i indicates that i is the only number that results in - 1 when squared. I did NOT say

[MATH]i^2 \equiv - 1.[/MATH]
In the realm of the complex numbers 0 + 1i and 0 - 1i are distinct numbers. Where is the confusion?

In fact, I specifically pointed out that there are two complex numbers that result in -1 when squared.
 
I am missing the point of your objection. Nothing in my definition of i indicates that i is the only number that results in - 1 when squared. I did NOT say

[MATH]i^2 \equiv - 1.[/MATH]
In the realm of the complex numbers 0 + 1i and 0 - 1i are distinct numbers. Where is the confusion?

In fact, I specifically pointed out that there are two complex numbers that result in -1 when squared.
So there are two different numbers, i, that satisfy [math]i^2= -1[/math]. But, in your previous post, you said
"The correct definition of i is that [math]i^2=−1[/math]."

I am saying that, since there are two numbers that have that property, it is NOT a definition of i.
 
So there are two different numbers, i, that satisfy [math]i^2= -1[/math]. But, in your previous post, you said
"The correct definition of i is that [math]i^2=−1[/math]."

I am saying that, since there are two numbers that have that property, it is NOT a definition of i.
How do you define it?
 
The problem is that every complex number, except 0, has two square roots. With positive real numbers, since every real number is either 0 or positive or negative, so the two square roots are one positive and one negative, we define the square root of a to be the positive root. The complex numbers do not have the "trichotomy" property so we cannot do that.

If you want a really valid definition of "i" start by defining the "complex numbers.

The complex numbers are defined as the set of all pairs of real numbers, (a, b) with addition defined by (a, b)+ (c, d)= (a+ c, b+ d) and multiplication defined by (a, b)*(c, d)= (ac- bd, ad+ bc). It just takes a little algebra to show that addition and multiplication are "associative" and "commutative" and that multiplication "distributes" over addition.

(0, 0) is the additive identity, (-a, -b) is the additive inverse of (a, b), (1, 0) is the multiplicative identity, and (a/(a^2+ b^2), -b/(a^2+ b^2)) is the multiplicative inverse of (a, b) as long as (a, b) is not (0, 0).

Then (a, 0)*(c, 0)= (ac- 0, 0)= (ac, 0) so we identify (a, 0) with the real number a so. In this sense, the real numbers are a subset of the complex numbers. But (0, b)*(0, d)= (0- bd, 0)= (-bd, 0). In particular, while (1, 0) is the multiplicative identity, (1, 0)*(a, b)= (a, b), identified with the number, "1", (0, b) has the property that its square is (0, b)* (0, b)= (0- b^2, 0)= (-b^2, 0) which we identify with the real number -b^2. In particular, (0, 1)*(0, 1)= (-1, 0) which we identify with the real number -1. We give the complex number (0, 1) the label "i" so i^2= -1.

Of course (a, b)= (a, 0)+ (0, b)= a+ b(0, 1)= a+ bi. With those definitions and identifications, we avoid the problem you have. i is NOT just the "square root of -1" (Which one? There are two!) but is specifically (0, 1). not (0, -1).

This is interesting, but I can't (yet) see the advantage of the (a,b) notation. It seems like it's change of nomenclature that is always interchangeable in both directions

(a,b) <=> a+ib

Therefore, to me, it doesn't seem to offer an advantage over the a+ib notation? Can't the closing statement of the above post be rewritten as...

(0,1) is NOT the only "square root of (-1,0)" (Which one? There are two!) but is specifically 0+i not 0-i
 
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