Poker related question

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stampedeSYD

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Apr 20, 2015
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Hi Guys, I posted this to my staff after much brain searching we all yet to come up with an answer. I have started a poker step program in Australia, any thoughts-

OK here it goes;

Based on the following stepprogram;


  • Step1 (cost $1) = Top 2 go through to step2
  • Step2 (cost $3) = Top 2 go through to step 3 / third gets a rebuy to step 2
  • Step3 (cost $5)= Top 2 through to step 4 / third and fourth get a rebuy tostep 3
  • Step4 (cost $7)= Top 2 go through to step 5
  • Step5 (cost $22)= Winner receives a Vegas Spectacular Ticket, valued at $137.50
For those non poker, eightplayers start on each table. Cost is the value of the ticket at that table; egstep one eight players X $1 = total revenue $8.

Questions;


  • What revenue is received ifI give away a Vegas ticket and all players start on step 1 (no-one buys in atany level except step 1). ?
  • How many events need to berun to give away this ticket ?

Please detail your answers.
 
stampedeSYD said:
Hi Guys, I posted this to my staff after much brain searching we all yet to come up with an answer. I have started a poker step program in Australia, any thoughts-

OK here it goes;

Based on the following stepprogram;


  • Step1 (cost $1) = Top 2 go through to step2
  • Step2 (cost $3) = Top 2 go through to step 3 / third gets a rebuy to step 2
  • Step3 (cost $5)= Top 2 through to step 4 / third and fourth get a rebuy tostep 3
  • Step4 (cost $7)= Top 2 go through to step 5
  • Step5 (cost $22)= Winner receives a Vegas Spectacular Ticket, valued at $137.50
For those non poker, eightplayers start on each table. Cost is the value of the ticket at that table; egstep one eight players X $1 = total revenue $8.

Questions;


  • What revenue is received ifI give away a Vegas ticket and all players start on step 1 (no-one buys in atany level except step 1). ?
  • How many events need to berun to give away this ticket ?

Please detail your answers.
Click to expand...
If no one buys in at any level except Step 1, I would think 5 tables of eight players would do it but what are your thoughts? Please detail your thoughts and present what you have tried even if you know it is wrong. You might also read
http://www.freemathhelp.com/forum/threads/78006-Read-Before-Posting
 
Ishuda said:
If no one buys in at any level except Step 1, I would think 5 tables of eight players would do it but what are your thoughts? Please detail your thoughts and present what you have tried even if you know it is wrong. You might also read
http://www.freemathhelp.com/forum/threads/78006-Read-Before-Posting
Click to expand...

My thoughts are this;

Step one X 4 events will fill a table for Step two. Therefore to run a step two event = 4 events x $8 = $32.

Step two event is now full so the top two go through to Step 3. We repeat this process four times to run a full table at step three. However each step two third place gets redo of step two - this now needs to be factored in, and so on for the next steps.

What I see is the following;

Step 1 revenue is $32
Step 2 revenue is Nil
Step 3 revenue is $32 x 4 = $168
Step 4 revenue is $32 x 4 x 4 = $512
Step 5 revenue is $32 x 4 x 4 x 4 = $2048.

Therefore total revenue is $2760.

At $8 per event then 345 Step 1 event would be run ??

Help - does this look right ? I did not factor in the redos in step two and three.
 
Well, let's work backwards to figure out how many games we need at each step. To find 1 grand prize winner of the ticket, you need only play 1 game at step 5. So that's done already. How many step 4 games do we need to feed 8 people into the step 5 game? The top 2 people go through at each stage, so we need to play four games in order to advance 8 people.

Alright, so we'll use the same process for step 3 games to feed into step 4, except there's a slight wrinkle. In step 3, the top 2 players advance, but the next 2 get a free retry. For the first game at step 3, we'll need 8 fresh players. After that, however, 2 players will stay behind, so we only need 6 new players per game after the first. That means we need 8 players to advance 2, but only 14 players to advance 4, then 20 players to advance 6, etc. Based on this, how many do we need to advance the required 32 people to step 4?

Hopefully this gives you a feel for how it's done. Try solving the rest from here.
 
OK firstly thankyou for that last post !! I am none the wiser, my maths stopped when I blew a brain cell working on regression theorems some time ago. I am but a small free poker operator and have already started this step program at my events, what I really wanted to know is am I giving fair value to my players given that 10% of all revenue is GST and 10% goes to my charity I support - Save our Sons.

Thanks for the support - I am about to go off to host an event (200+) runners, I will read up again tomorrow for answers.

Cheers Bart.
 
stampedeSYD said:
...
What I see is the following;

Step 1 revenue is $32
Step 2 revenue is Nil
Step 3 revenue is $32 x 4 = $168
Step 4 revenue is $32 x 4 x 4 = $512
Step 5 revenue is $32 x 4 x 4 x 4 = $2048.
...
Click to expand...

I agree with ksdhart that working backwards is probably the easiest way to solve the problem. However, I am unclear on the rules. Let's just look at one table of 8. At Step 1, you say the top 2 go through to Step 2. Is this at no cost or is this at a cost of $3? If it is at no cost, as suggested in your post at Step 2, then my answer of 5 tables is not correct as I was assuming the advance incurred a cost. Given that the advance costs nothing for the top 2 players, your post also seems to imply that at Steps 3, 4, 5 there are some rebuys [4 at Step 3, 16 at Step 4, and 64 at Step 5].

If we assume
(a) no free rebuys (as assumed by ksdhart)
(b) no paid rebuys
(c) each table must start with a full table of 8
then it would be a simple multiply by 4 going down each step as indicated by ksdhart from Step 5 to Step 4. That would mean a total of 256 tables of 8 players each for a total of 2048 players to provide a full table at Step 5. That would mean a revenue at Step 1 of $2048 and no revenue at any of the other steps. But I have the feeling those assumptions are not the correct ones.

Rounding to nearest dollar:
Revenue: $2048
GST : $205
Chairty: $205
Vegas Ticket: $138
Gross Profit: $1500
Other costs: ???
Net Profit: ???
 
I got interested and did a spread sheet program

Init. Tables
200
Step 1
Step 2
Step 3
Step 4
Step 5
No. Tables
200
50
14
4
1
No. Players
1600
400
112
32
8
Init Through
400
100
28
8
2
Free Rebuy/Tbl
0
1
2
0
0
___Players
0
50
28
0
0
___Tables
0
6
3
0
0
___2nd Through
0
12
6
0
0
Total Through
400
112
34
8
2
If it is indicated that there are more players than tables in a round,
do a draw for the tables to have 9 players to accommodate the total
number of players indicated.
Also Step 5 just indicates a heads up result for the grand prize.
 
stampedeSYD said:
Have I posted this in the right thread ??
Click to expand...
Whoever told you that there are paid staffers here, waiting on-hand to provide immediate replies, was very much mistaken. Replies are posted by volunteers, who surf by as they're able. We have jobs, families, and bedtimes, too! :p

By the way, even had somebody seen your first post the instant it went up, a mere eleven minutes might be too short a time to provide any sort of in-depth reply.

To get the instant, on-demand responses you need, you'll want to contract with a service which offers such. But it's better to pay with a very low-limit credit card, as many ("most"?) of such services are actually scammers.

Good luck! ;)
 
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